AI can never replace coaches

Shane: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you are in the world. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Coaching Done Well Season 4 with me, Shane Leaning and Jim Thompson. How you doing, Jim?

Jim Thompson: Well well, Shane, I'm curious what's out that back window of yours. Is that an i I AI photograph or what's going on in the back in through that window, Shane?

Shane: I am living in the future. So I have been doing some wonderful work today with the French International School in Hong Kong. So I am very lucky because outside my window, it's a bit blurry, but hopefully you can see a little bit. There's the Hong Kong skyline just outside. And how how lucky am I to be doing this kind of work? How lucky are we to be getting to work with great educators in great settings like this, Jim? So I'm in a In very unglamorously, in a hotel by the way, you know, hotel there and then my laptop just to bring it to eye level so I'm not kind of looking down at you like this. It's stood on top of a toilet roll. The g the glam like And how about you, Jim? Where where are you? What have you been up to? And did you have a good summer?

Jim Thompson: Well, Shane, it this is I'm excited about starting season four. I mean, like holy moly, and we're work we're just have followers on every continent, but Antarctica, I mean, this is we're j we're just so blessed to have our our a loyal fan base and kind of get together like this and it really is cheers. We're that's what that's what we're all about on Coaching Done Well. We're we wanna have this place where like a Starbucks but like a Cheers where everybody knows your name and and and everybody is glad you came. So welcome to season four. Shane, you know, seasons change and we're in a changes season about school starts in New York State next week. I know down south it started earlier. it's getting dark earlier now. Boy, it's getting dark earlier now. And and and and we have fall like temperatures, which I'm very thankful for. A lot of our country has gone through terrible heat waves, climate change is real. And we've gotten a lot of rain where a lot of our country is in in terrible drought. But you know, even though I'm I'm not working full time summer it the summer seems to go by kind of quickly. you know, I know when you were a kid like all of a sudden it's my god, I it's school time, right? and and and so th this this is good. Yeah, this is good and and and I think we'll this focus that we've got this continued question we're gonna ask what does co coaching done well look like, sound like and feel like in this changing era. This changing era. I I think this gonna be something fun to explore this morning. And and with our guests throughout the year. we don't have easy answers, but we we we do have a form for reflection and sharing and and listening. And listening. listening with empathy, I think. So Shane, what about you? What have you been up to?

Shane: Yeah, it's been it's been a great summer, although like, you know, for listeners, you know, Jim is morning over there 'cause you're in over in US, New York State and I'm over in China. Still on the same time zone. I'm usually based in Shanghai, but a lot of international schools wake up early August. So I've been had a very busy August working with a lot of schools, which has been really, really rewarding work. But I've been also kind of just reflecting on On my practice, it's a chance to kind of reflect on your practice, to kind of set some goals for the goals for the future as well, which I which I always like to do over the summer. And one of the big things been reflecting on is this show. So for listeners tuning in, welcome. This is season four of Coaching Done Well, and you may be with have been with us for the all the seasons, you may have joined us for a few of the seasons, or you may be new to the show. But whichever way you are joining us, you are so welcome here. And we're really, really delighted to share this space with you. Coaching Done Well is a show with me and Jim, and then, you know, often with some really special guests as well, where we talk about that phrase, coaching done well. And I wonder, Jim, if it's worth kind of you giving a reminder of where the how we named the show, that where did that come from originally. It might give people a bit of a taster of what's in store.

Jim Thompson: Well, that I appreciate that. And it started with tennis some guy wanna needing tennis lessons and he needed tennis lessons. And and and th this guy was a neurosurgeon trained at Stanford and and Harvard. His name was Dr. Artu Gwande. And he he wanted t he was a neurosurgeon and he wanted to up his game in tennis, so he got a coach. And with working with the coach he he got a lot better. And so then he transferred this idea to as a neurosurgeon. He said, No, wait a minute. If if this tennis coach helped me become a better tennis player, what about the notion if I got a coach to help me become a better neurosurgeon? So he enlisted one of his professors from Stanford to do this. And he figured the guy's not gonna give much feedback because he's pretty good. I'm pretty good. I'm Stanford. And the guy came and stayed with him through several surgeries. And I guess the first conference, the guy, his his mentor had like 32 pages of legal ped filled with feedback. And the most important feedback is he said the first one, he says, Where do you put your elbow when you operate? He said, Have you noticed that? And I said, No. He says, You put your elbow up here and it blocks the light. Of your surgery and it blocks the vision of your attending nurse. Did you know that? Whoa. I mean, it's just then and there. So Jim Knight got wind of this, and Jim Knight started talking with him and wrote this great, great article. And you know, Atl Gwandi's got this phrase that coaching done well may be the greatest impact on human performance. It's not coaching. But coaching don't much different, much different.

Shane: Yes.

Jim Thompson: Sneak preview. When we get to thinking about what's going on today, I'm going to say that we ought to banish the term AI coach. We ought to banish the term AI coach. So folks, if you were gonna turn this broadcast off, you better not get yourself a drink, come here. Because I'm gonna talk about why the idea of AI coach is ridiculous and ain and insane. So please stay tuned. Stay tuned. But they you know, to answer that question, that's where it comes from. And it's a serious question. It's a serious question because you know, we got a lot of people who are coaches out there and they haven't got a lot of training or they they they don't have some specific roles. In and one of the biggest things that Jim Knight has been with is this the research. What's the research to show the impact of this? And and we're gonna talk as we get going. But I think that that that that's our focus. Our focus is that on the idea of coaching done well in in in ultimately, hopefully, so we all become better versions of ourselves. We all become better versions of ourselves, and especially the kids. Especially helping children be in the people in the schoolhouse. So see I I stuck a little sneaker in there with the you know, about that. You know.

Shane: I I saw what you I saw what you did there, Jim. And I'm all here for it.

Jim Thompson: But that that that's a great, great opening question. What is about coaching done well? And it's a serious question. And you know, I took one to you Google him, he was big in the Obama presidential camp situation with health and Well, we got a lot of need in that in the United States for that today. But it it's good stuff and and we we always ask our many of our guests here, you know, about what their notion of this term is. And it's it's it's fun to listen to it, isn't it? What's where their perspectives are, Shane.

Shane: Yes.

Jim Thompson: What's your take?

Shane: It it's it's totally interesting because yeah, as Jim said, we ask so many of our guests what does coaching done well look like, sound like, feel like to you? And the diversity of conversations we've had based on that simple question is incredible and just tells you something. But yeah, coaching done well, done well being the important part. And so if you're interested in coaching and you're particularly interested in how to get coaching done well, this might be A really, really good show for you. And we have got some exciting developments to share with you this season as well. including some special partnership that we're going to be partnering later on the podcast and bringing some some something else on, which I'll explain to people a bit later. But a bit of like housekeeping, a bit of bit of rule letting you know about this show. So there's two ways you're listening to us right now. One You're listening to us on the podcast feed. You listen on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify and you you're on your run, you're on your commute, you're in the shower, wherever you decide to listen to your podcast, that's your business. We don't need to know that. But you're here and you're with us and you're tuning in. But did you know this podcast we always record live? We this makes this podcast super special because it is always a live stream. And that means all the errors are also in there, all the tech hiccups. are also in there. All all the jokes, no editing here. Like it's all it's all there. And we go live every time we go live is always on LinkedIn. So you can always find us on LinkedIn and Riverside. and join us. it's Tuesday today and I'm currently looking on to LinkedIn. Here we go. I've just opened it up on my computer And I can see people are already joining us on LinkedIn, which is absolutely wonderful. So thank you for joining us. If you're joining us on LinkedIn Live, it is wonderful to have you here. And I'll tell you what's even more wonderful when people join us live and join in the conversation. So if you've got comments to share, you've got ideas, you've got thoughts, you've got reflections, chuck a comment on LinkedIn under the video. I will keep

Jim Thompson: Yeah.

Shane: you'll see my eyes flicking like this. And it's usually me just reading those comments, seeing who's there, and and you're welcome to be with us. But if you are with us just on the catch up on the on the podcast, it is also a joy to have you here. So, Jim, what's in store? What are we gonna where where shall we start today? What's in store for the ye for the season ahead?

Jim Thompson: Well, I I appreciate that. you know, I wanna reiterate thr you know, three things everybody can do today, you know, to to help advance student success and well being. There's a lot of stuff out there, you gotta buy a consultants, we gotta study it. Well, I don't think kids can wait. I don't think kids can wait. You know, when you bring a patient in the emergency ward, you don't say, Well, geez, we could can we study that a little bit? Maybe we'll look some references that we'll get to know you. We need it's urgent. And I think it's urgent right now. We help people to help kids. and so I there's three here's three or four or five things you can do immediately with no cost. You know, no cost. I started educate my work in education in nineteen seventy-two. So I I've I've gone through the all the good things and the mistakes. And so this is that retrospect. Number one is number one is to find out what kids are not connected to school right now. And you can easily do that with a questionnaire. I would do three through five, three through six questionnaire in a separate for high school. And you can ask kids just very simply, if you had a problem or a challenge in your life, what person in the schoolhouse in school would you feel comfortable going to to help you out? To help you out. It's easy. It's easy. Then you collect those. And 'cause we did that a long time ago and I thought everybody's gonna be And and you know you're gonna find out that a bunch of kids are not connected whatsoever, not connected or whatsoever. And then you're gonna find out that there's there's certain teachers that have a lot of connections with kids. And so from that data that you collect, you can immediately share with some teachers that you know here's 73 kids that say they've connected with you. You know, God bless you, thank you. And then you can go as a team in a a building study team. Here's kids who don't feel connected whatsoever to school. What are we gonna do about it? And and you don't wait till June, where they're going through behavior problems or they're dropping out. You you do that immediately. You can do that today. Number two, read aloud to kids every day. Read aloud to kids every day. Sadly, at least in the United States, we got trapped up someplace. And more and more schools are not reading real literature cover to cover. They're not reading books. They're reading excerpts.

Shane: Yeah, it's the same in a lot of places.

Jim Thompson: I I can't I can't figure that out. I tell you, I remember I was a principal I read the kids and as a teacher I read the kids and they they loved it. You know, coming back from lunch, we're gonna read Treasure Island, a a few ch a chapter and a I mean they race back from lunch. They race back from lunch and there's a love for books and a love for learning there. Number two three, invite all teachers to video their practice, just video their practice and identify one goal they'd like to work on. And then if you post the goal, you're gonna be able to enter a door prize, get a door prize coupon. Just post the goal for the for the district. And if somebody reacts to that goal and says, hey, I think I can reach out, help you with that, they can get a door prize ticket too. Because guess where the answer is? The answer's in the room. The answer's in the room. So if we ask you, invite people to video and incentivize a little bit with a door prize and prizes. And then we invite people in the in the district. No, they don't have to, but if you want to, you you'll get a little incentive to respond to that person and say, I think I can help you with that goal. And maybe incentivize them a little bit. who knows the sharing that goes on, the collegial sharing. Fourth thing I think you can do. I think you need to teach ask teachers what do they need. You know what I did as a principal every year at the opening faculty meeting shame? I said, folks, I love it back. I I know you're working hard. But here's what the district has decided that you need to work on. Now, how much joy would you think that was received on? How much, you know, you know what it was teachers. Would you ask me, Jim? Would you ask me? And the th and here's what I think you ought to ask kids the first day back. First day back, ask every student. Last year, what gave you energy in school? What made you feel great in school? What gave you would you make a list? Would you make a list? You know, why not? my god, that that what that doesn't take to bring in a consultant from Sheboykan, Illinois, eight thousand dollars a day to to use that data. And then I'd go to school on it. I'd I'd use that. I'd use that. So so there's I think some things we could do immediately to make an impact on kids, to to develop a sense of agency, to notice affirmation, and immediately immediately start to impact instruction. I mean I cause people say they ain't got any money. They haven't got any money. So those are things that I think they can they can work on immediately. Immediately. I'm gonna add just I'm not I'm not gonna p be the fox in the head house and then you know, th then I'm gonna give it back to you 'cause I I I want a lot of listeners. I we'd love comments here. But if you don't like what I'm saying, send it to Shane. Sha send it to any anything to Shane on this one, but What I think we've got to start asking ourselves, what is the promise and what are the perils of AI when it comes to coaching done well? What is the promise and what are the perils of AI and coaching done well? I'm hearing a lot of promise. I'm hearing very little of the perils. And and here's where I'm going with this, Shane. And I I invite reader respond. You know, I can buy into the fact that AI can be an amazing data bank for ideas and resources. We'll not deny that in a moment. Is an amazing data bank for ideas and resources. I cannot, I cannot buy into the notion of AI being a coach. Would you send your child to an AI brain surgeon? Would you send your AI? i let's go revisit the and we can talk more about this. What are the essence? What are the essence of coaching done well? Well what's number one? Trust building. Trust building. Does that happen easily with a couple of perfunctory conversations? I is that a linear journey building trust? I I I think not. In and and what's the second thing that we have? We wanna Listen, listen to the people. And what do we invite we want to invite them to do? First thing, we want to invite them to share their story. We want to invite them to share their story. My friend George Manthe, who has worked with the folks with evocative questioning, he says about story. When we are really listening to a person, we are communicating. I hear you. I'm here for you. I believe in you. I'm receiving the gift of your story, and I'm holding it in sacred trust. I don't see any AI about doing any of the things I just talked about. I see none of it. And furthermore, you correct me if I'm wrong, but there is an epidemic of loneliness in the world. Teachers do not feel that they're being paid attention to. They don't feel they're being listened to. They don't think they're being affirmed. They don't believe that they're receiving agency. All those things are in that mulligan stew of the privilege and challenge of being a human being in giving moments of humanity and grace. It's not linear, it's not predictable. So I'll buy into AI being a wonderful bank of resources, of knowledge. I will not buy into AI being a coach. Because as Anthony Usalowicz said in The Watergate, follow the money. Follow the money. I'm seeing more and more advertisements. For this amount of money, you can have an AI coach. No, you can't. No, you can't. You can have an AI database of knowledge. But if we're really talking about coaching done well, in in what's that what's that question we Michael Bunke Stanyer, we we we stole from him? What do you believe to be true? What do you believe to be? I believe to be true that coaching done well is complex, not linear. But very joyful. And it's that human element, that's human element that's gonna make it succeed or fail. AI can supplement, supplement, but never, never supplant coaching. So that's my two cents. That's my story. I'm sticking to it. If we get a lot of an viewers come on on board, we love you. Please sign up to be a a a coaching done well fan. So That starts us off, Shane, a little bit, but so let me throw it over to you. Any thoughts you have and what's on your mind?

Shane: Jim Thompson, that was a mic drop moment. You just dropped the microphone. that's amazing. Yeah. I there was so much you said there that was resonating. And two things. One to come back to one of those that question you said earlier, and then I'll deal with the AI one because I think that's really important. But that first one you said asking students the question when they get back, what gave you energy? you know, last year, like what's given you energy? And I also think that that's such a great question to be asking teachers as well. Like what gave you energy? And I think it really draws on the kind of principles of strength based coaching or strength based conversations b rather than going starting off going, what didn't work for you or what do you want to get better at? And you know, what are you not very good at? And so what can we do this year? Which sometimes we can think is the helpful thing to do at the start of a year. Okay, what do you want to improve? What do you want to get better at? You know, what are you not very good at? Like what's what do you want to get rather than actually starting, what gave you energy last year? Like let's start at that place. What if we started from the strength of last year? Something that brought you joy, something that gave you energy, then propelled you into your job. And let's make sure we're recognizing those amazing things that happened. Not to be soft, not to be fluffy, but to actually go When you recognize what's working for someone, you can build on that and that you can powerfully build on it. If you don't recognise the good things that have happened for people, then that can get forgotten, it can stop being repeated and it can it can disappear. And what a you know, how upsetting a world it would be is if we just constantly kept replacing one good thing with a different good thing and losing the previous, right? Like and sometimes it can I think that can happen in professional developments and a lot of different things in schools where we get excited by the next thing and we forget to hold on to those great, great things before. So that really resonated. the promise and peril of AI. Jim, great provocation. Absolutely love this. It was making me think of AI as the technician and the expert of the technical. And I have a little bit of a fear As well, from a slightly different place. I worry that as we have come to understand the brain better and to learn more about the science of learning and all these things, which are really good, and I support them. For example, today I was doing some teaching walkthroughs coaching with a school, which I love their stuff. Like I really, really enjoy. We've had you know Matt Stone on the podcast talking through some of those great ideas. and

Jim Thompson: Yes.

Shane: Some people can start to think, and I think some schools accidentally can focus far too much on the technical of teaching or the technical of leading. Like do this, then do that, then do this, and do this, then do that, then do this. And you can see results from this, usually short term, but you can see results from this. But what that doesn't capture when you obsess too much of the technical is the humanity of teaching, the abstractness. Of teaching, the relation-based, even love-based practice of being a a teacher and being a leader and being a practitioner in education, which the technical doesn't cover. And at the same time as this kind of move towards a more technical understanding of education has just accidentally also been the time where AI is on the rise, as you just said. And AI does. A marvelous job of the technical. Not a perfect job still. Like, let's not pretend that AI is getting the technical exactly right either. It's not, but it's doing a great job of the technical. What AI can't do, it can only ever imitate, but it can't actually do is the human, is the abstract messiness of being a human, is the relationship-based way we operate. Where You know, humans, we're pack animals as well. Like we're community-based creatures and we draw derive energy from each other in our relationships, whether that be personal relationships, professional relationships, love-based relationships. And AI potentially takes us in a a weird direction, especially when we start bringing it into our most human of experiences, coaching being one of them. Because in the end, what is coaching? It's a conversation between Two human beings to help each of those human beings become better versions of themselves. And you take a human being out of that loop and it might engage a technical, it might give you good advice, it might be able to synthesize all the things that have come before and give you the perfect bit of technical advice. But in the end, it's it's not human. And there's no actual connection, there's no real care. You there either. It's like it's it's fake. I'll give you like one example, like I think this comes to life. I think I've mentioned it on before once is you know my wife Emma Jim, and she's a great writer and she's a columnist in a newspaper, she writes columns, and we've taught a lot about AI coming in to the place of her pet place, which is writing about human experience. And when she's kind of used AI, she's kind of had a look at it and you can put on all of her articles and it can recreate a new article that is in the style of Emma Leaning, like her style, right? And it looks great, it reads great, except It's not Emma. It's not actually her. So the ideas and the experiences it's talking about are not real. They're not lived. And regardless of even how good that text is, as soon as you know that there's no human being behind it, it loses all value and all meaning. And why would anyone read a column about a human experience written by an AI? There's no value to that. And in the same way, I think coaching, I think you're bang on the mark with something. And we may be getting a bit of hate as we speak. people who disagree strongly with us, what what do you reckon, Jim?

Jim Thompson: Well well this is, you know, you you you you hit the mark and f what we're doing right now, this is conversation. You know, and in and and sadly, Shane, now I'm old old old guy here, so you know, I think that this is the greatest sh conversation stealer ever invented in personal history. Yeah, I was a social studies teacher at one time. And and I remember

Shane: Makes sense.

Jim Thompson: that that, you know, for a long time that people gathered and pubs and things and they they just had like drink. They drank a lot. And so the conversations of got increasingly kind of like off the mark. But all of a sudden there was something brought to Europe called coffee. Called coffee. And they it was during the Enlightenment. And guess what people had? It was like their first Starbucks. People had coffee houses. And because they drank coffee, they got into extended Extended conversations back and forth, surfacing ideas, challenging ideas. And I think that is the spark of democracy and knowledge. But you go into any place today, you can go in restaurant with with a family around a table eating, gonna have dinner, and you know what everybody's doing? Everybody's got this out. Got this out. You you you kinda you go in about ninety five percent of the places where there used to be con some conversation. There used to be some and and we got this out. And what else does this do? It it just ha we scroll. We don't want to settle down on an article and read. We want to scroll. We wanna scroll. You know, one of the things I've read out there which is very dismaying, well first of all, the this lady very she's big into literacy, she posted the reading list and School of night in 1978, and it had these fabulous classics. 1978. And then she looked around for high schools in their area today. There was nothing even that came close. And some of the teachers saying, well, the kids just won't hang in there cognitively with a real book. They just won't do it. And so I think this is the reason why more now more than ever we need to have a time and a place for some human conversation. to g to give to to let to listen to people and and invite their story and to work with them in this nonlinear, messy thing called coaching. what are your thoughts on all this?

Shane: Yeah, yeah, I I agree. And I think the key word there was messy. Like humans are messy, schools are messy, and I don't think they're ever gonna be unmessy, right? Like because what's more messy, like well, one human being is messy enough, right? I'm messy, Jim, you're probably very messy, like like there's we've got lives that we're living, right? Like that comes with

Jim Thompson: Yeah. yeah.

Shane: a a whole load of mess.

Jim Thompson: Don't ask your colleagues about my school desk. My my desk in my look like a crime scene.

Shane: I've heard about your school desk, Jim. Yeah. Yeah.

Jim Thompson: And my my secretary on parent night would try to clean it up for me. And the next day I'd come and say, Where's

Shane: Ha ha ha.

Jim Thompson: everything?

Shane: I love that. I love that. And then and then if one person is messy, then imagine getting a group of adults together, you know, in in a building. That's gonna be really messy, like all these interactions. Then add some children to the mix, these students, then add some parents to the mix and teachers, parents, students I mean leaders, like it's gonna like it's it's a it's like what I think is like a beautiful mess. It's the most beautiful mess you can imagine because it's deeply human. And I think there's a lot of what I'm hopeful for is that this AI revolution, although is gonna settle some huge challenges, and I worry about some of the things you said, such as the capitalist intentions behind some of these AI kind of drivers and where who's driving that conversation, you know, and in education, how much are we gonna let Google drive the conversation around what we do with AI and How much are we gonna actually let teachers do it? Like so all of these kind of areas really, really worry me and make me nervous. But I am hopeful as well that the more we start to look at AI and look at what it is, hopefully it will also help us to identify what makes us special as humans as well. And wouldn't that be special if we were able to start holding up a a a thing and going, this looks human to an extent. It talks a little bit like a human and it like seems to be able to do things that are quite human and clever. But it's not. And what is that difference? What is what is it that makes us unique and human? And if AI is the tool that allows us to do that, I that gives me a lot of hope that there's there's a potential ahead for us to reflect on human practices and I think what a perfect space to really test some of those ideas out then in coaching. So it's definitely something I'd love to pick up in a few conversations over this next season if you fancy it, Jim.

Jim Thompson: Well, I I mean it it i it it you know, it it's not the destination, it's the journey. It's the journey, it's the journey. an another thing that's on my mind I know we're gonna wrap up is th this idea of coaching. I think we got act one pretty good, and I don't think we got act two pr down very much at all. Act one is look let's just talk about my role as a video coach. we invite somebody to video their practice after we build some trust and then they looked at their practice and they identify a goal that they want to work on. And we talk about what that goal is and where they are on a scale one to ten where are they right now and so on. Well that's act one. Act two is the coach. What is the coach's knowledge of a repertoire of instructional strategies, ideas, and mindsets out there that they can not only share with their coaches, not only share, but help explain, help make meaning of what this technique is all about, how it advances teaching. And then, and this, and this is ain't hate hate much at all, except with a few of our guests. to model it for the coachy, to have re have the coachy rehearse it with them and then try it out in early stages with students and video it and say, how's this working out? Because this is gradual, these things. That that that act two is not happening, especially developing a repertoire of instructional strategies, mindsets, and ideas doesn't mean you w this is what we're you're gonna have to do, but we need to g show you a variety of things out there. Now there are some there are some people out there, like Tom Sherrington, who's with my you know, and Oliver and Matt Stone and Sarah Cottinghant and and Adam and and Haley. the Doug Lamoff, Doug Lamoff to me is the king of this, is really hip deep. into this idea of instructional strategies and and breaking them down to people to figure out this because here here's and here's where I maybe DBA a little. I'm gonna put the Fox in the Hent House one more time before we'll sign off. some people say you should never ever script do a script for a teacher. I think I think there are sometimes you should. I think if you tell her to give a teacher a script all the time, something ain't right. But this is what that's going on in the United States, Shane. Maybe it's not going on internationally We get brand new teachers that come out of college and eighty five percent of them tell us that they don't they didn't learn how to teach in teachers college. Just didn't learn how to teach. They didn't learn so then they get a bunch of a bunch of thirty kids in front of and they're they don't have any idea classroom management. it's a mess. It's going crazy. They got no idea. I mean, hello. And so if you just want to be facilitative coach, you just meet one say, How's it going? Well, it ain't going bare, it's terrible. Well, tell me why it's going terrible. Talk to me why it's going terrible. And okay, let's talk a little bit more why it's going terrible. But because they haven't learned it, they haven't got a my you know strategies for this, sometimes I say, can you help me out? And and the coach may say, well, let's work on the first 10 minutes of class, because this is real important. Here are some things to think about in the first 10 minutes of class. Here are some things I want you to think about. Here's some things I want you to consider doing. And and and here's tell me more about your kids. Okay. Let me give you a proposed script for the first ten minutes of class. And I want to see how you feel about it. And and then once we have that, then maybe if you feel okay about it, then maybe we've got to enact the script. And and I I think that's we need that. We cannot say we can never do that. Kind the the opposite of this, if you're in a district and say we we're gonna give you every lesson you're gonna script and and you have nothing to say about it, I wouldn't teach there. But there are times there are times we need help. We need help

Shane: Totally.

Jim Thompson: in and we need help. And I think there are some coaching models saying, we can't you should never do that. Excuse me. Excuse me, they're they're they're people are sinking. They're sinking. In in the United States, you know what teeth what teachers say their biggest challenge is? I don't know if it's internationally. Student behavior. They didn't learn in teachers college maybe 30 years ago. In has ki have kids changed in 30 years? yeah. Did the pandemic change us? yeah. And to say, well, we you just kind of rely on what you did in 1983 when you graduated from, you know, whatever. And and that that that dog that is not working so I think we've got to change our notion of of our of some coaching medals here. Not easy to do. And I and this is one of the things that I think we've had some great guests on. You're doing the walkthroughs, there's some great things like that. But I I think if we're looking at shifts like that, I I wanna help our coaches with some of this, especially the modeling and then helping them rehearse these strategies with their coache. I mean, it's right now it's not being done. So if we could start off some notions about that and If there's people doing that, let us know about it. That's great. Your thoughts. I know we've got to wrap up a but what are you some of your thoughts here, Shane, before we wrap up?

Shane: Yeah, Jim, like you make so many real good points and you speak v so well to the nuance of what we're talking about here, like and and that, you know, it's not a this or that and we have to get away from these binary ideas and about thinking about, you know, how we incorporate all the different best practices that are out there. And you mentioned some brilliant names there. funnily enough, Jim, you mentioned a few people and you also mentioned Adam Adam Colbeck and the work he's doing. And he's joined us live on I can see him looking there on LinkedIn. And he's in fact sent us a a message here about AI. He says, and and for those who haven't met Adam, he's a a friend of the show, has been on with us. He said, I can't foresee a time in which AI could coach me with a deep understanding of my professional identity. That's a problem because so much of my classroom decision making is filtered through my professional identity, and my identity isn't static. It's constantly shifting and updating. Ironically, maybe in part due to my experience of AI. Isn't that fascinating? Of course. And of course, that's only what AI can know is what you've told it. What a great point. Great to have you with us on on this show, Adam. You're gonna have to come back. You promised us you would. So you're gonna have to come back on the show.

Jim Thompson: We'll get him and Sarah back. They they got that new they got her and they've got with Halley a great new book, Adaptive Coaching coming out in September. I

Shane: Yeah.

Jim Thompson: gotta I gotta get that. We'll have him on the show in the spring, I'm sure, won't we?

Shane: Well, it's good maybe even better than that because I'll tell you what, Jim, to wrap up like some a very exciting announcements as well. so people may notice when they're looking at this podcast, especially if you're tuning in on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast, you might notice that there's a little banner at the bottom that says an Education Leaders International Podcast standard. That is means that we've got a quality standard there, like so Coaching and well has come under the Education Leaders family of podcasts to kind of signify this is a podcast that's to be so useful, especially to people who are thinking and leading in schools, for you to improve your practice and improve the conversations. And as part of that, we're also there's going to be an announcement in the next few weeks of an expansion of that Education Leaders Podcast Network. And there's going to be a few podcasts joining, joining the network. making a set of podcasts which can become your go-to place, whether that be leadership, whether that be coaching, whether it be teaching strategies, we've got a podcast for that, whether it be how we look outwards in education, we've got a podcast for that. so there's lots of different areas, or whether it be current affairs, in what's happening in the world in in education, there's a podcast for that as well. and I'm not gonna spoil it too much because we have got a special launch happening very soon. But except to say that it's funny that Adam's on the show right now in the in there because Adam is gonna be involved and Sarah Coltinghat and a few people are gonna be involved in quite a special way at really enhancing the conversations even we're having, Jim. And I think by the next episode we'll be able to share a bit more on that. So I'm really excited.

Jim Thompson: I I love it. Just looking, they're they're they're just just great people. And we have my great friends and him on the show. I I know looking in the future, September 10th, our first guest. I've got he's getting up real early in the morning. Dr. Gene Tavernetti's from California.

Shane: He's a legend.

Jim Thompson: he is a UK Davis doctorate. And this guy, I mean, he is talk about teaching. He wrote Digives Teach First. Maximizing the impact of coaching cycles. He's a fan of Shane's. He's a big fan of Shane's. He's coming on on September tenth. I know Shane's got a guest so he's we're looking at it for the end of September. Then in early October, I think it's October eighth, I've got Richard Reed from the a giant in coaching in Ireland and in Europe. I mean and he

Shane: Yes.

Jim Thompson: and I asked Richard, what are you into lately? And he said, I'm really taking a deep dive into listening. the listening piece of being coaching. So I can't wait to get Richard on the show as well. and then, you know, we got Adam. You talked about Adam. I mean, we folks, folks, this this is this is stay tuned a a con a podcast. You know, drop everything, buddy. You know, share this with friends during your holiday visits. but it's exciting, Shane. It's exciting.

Shane: It's really exciting. And I'm really again really grateful to share this space with you. For a I can't believe we're on our fourth season already, Jim. What an absolute honor. What an honor to share this space with not only the with you, but the amazing guests we have and the amazing community who join us live. So like my call to action, if you're listening to this on the catch-up, is come and join us. Come and join us on Coaching Dunwell. Follow Coaching Dunwell on LinkedIn. That's your best place. That we've got an official account. Search Coaching Done Well, follow it. If you follow that, you'll get updates of when the episodes are going to be broadcast and when we have the live streams. And you can click a little button that allows you to set a little reminder so you can remember to come along to those live sessions. We would love to have you here and we would love you to have you a part of the conversation. But Jim, thank you so much for sharing this last 40, 45 minutes with you. It's been a pleasure, and I'm dead excited about what's to come.

Jim Thompson: Well, it's a pleasure with me, Shane. I mean the technology here I'm in upstate New York when the leaves are about to change and you got the sh the the Hong Kong skyline in the back of you. You know what they they would

Shane: How about that? Look at that,

Jim Thompson: say in the Andy Griffith show, he would say, Shaziam.

Shane: Shazam, that's a perfect place to finish. Jim, take care. Have an amazing few weeks. We'll see you all for the next episode of Coachy Do Well.

Jim Thompson: Thanks, Shane. Thanks.